not mine. i know i'm supposed to only want good thing for ryan and i do but i'm not worried, he's going to kill it. maybe he will be sent up to the big show in november but i'm only human and after covering politics for years, sometimes a girl just wants a long, slow, deep, soft, wet kiss that lasts three days. so come on joe crash biden, this might be your last chance to do it your way. show me and meat how it's done in the bigs. go out with a bang. martin, it's all yours. >> i'm not sure we could take much more of that s.e., but thank you so much. good afternoon. it's tuesday, october 9th, and this race is tighter than a snare drum, so let's hit it. four weeks to go. >> iowa is going to help elect me the next president of the united states. >> that's what's at stake in the next 29 days. that's why i'm running for a

second term as president. >> four weeks to set the record straight. >> suddenly a guy pretending to be mitt romney stood on a stage next to me. what $5 trillion tax cut? i don't know anything about a $5 trillion tax cut. >> we are going to win this. we're taking back the white house. >> the romney family is taking back this campaign. >> or not. >> that was kind of strange. trying to stick words in people's mouths. >> stay in your seats. there's just four weeks until election day. >> the top rate, for instance, would go from 35% to 28%. >> don't pay any attention to that tax cut behind the curtain. >> i'm not sure exactly precisely with what i said but i stand behind it, whatever it was. >> we begin exactly 28 days until the election with both the president and his challenger declaring they will win a race

that is anything but settled. today their paths will cross again in ohio, the state that may yet decide this election. amid new signs of urgency from both campaigns. case in point, this afternoon's gallup poll showing the president leading mitt romney 49% to 46% among registered voters. among likely voters it's romney up by two leading the president 49% to 47%. folks, this is a tight race as both candidates are keenly aware. romney began in iowa, one of the states that could prove crucial to his hopes for a path to 270 electoral votes. and he was introduced by his son, josh, who had an interesting take on romney's debate preparation. >> we'd say the same lie over and over and my dad learned then not to believe it. so while we didn't go to any of the formal debate preparation, we did the real hard stuff. as a father, he learned how to debate an obstinate child. >> kicking it off by suggesting

the president is an obstinate child. that's great, mr. romney. what do you have for sale? >> i am going to put a cap on regulation and any new major regulation will have to be approved by congress. i'm not letting the politicians off the hook. >> absolutely, he's not letting politicians off the hook, just wall street, k street, polluters, abusers, everyone else. the president spent last night rallies supporters at a san francisco fund-raiser telling them he intends to win but only if his backers are obsessive for the next four weeks and admitting that he's got some ground to make up after the debacle in denver. >> after the debate i had a bunch of people come up to me, don't be so polite, don't be so nice. i want everybody to understand something, what was being presented wasn't leadership. that's salesmanship. >> the president is now on his way to columbus due to touchdown

within the half hour for a late afternoon rally at ohio state university. for his part, mr. romney will be joined by new jersey governor chris christie for an evening rally in cuyahoga falls, ohio. ap apologies for my pronunciation. romney will be battling for the buckeye state. he's got a new straight to camera ohio ad making his case on the airwaves. >> under president obama we've lost over a half a million manufacturing jobs and china has passed us in manufacturing. i'll stand up to china. i have a detailed plan to create 12 million new jobs, including producing our own energy in the ground, in ohio. >> i'm so glad you brought that up, mr. romney. let's talk about that now. your jobs plan. let's do it. let's get right to our panel. here in new york msnbc political analyst david corn, author of the new book "47%", richard

walls, one of my many bosses and in washington, karen finney. richard, i have to put this to you. romney says he will create 12 million jobs by cutting taxes across the board by 20% -- >> he's not going to cut taxes. >> hang on, which economists said cal cates to about $5 trillion but romney now says he won't cut taxes at 20% across the board and it won't accumulate $5 trillion in that sense. so is romney a presidential candidate or a ventriloquist? >> well, he's certainly a great debater with himself, right? because that would be a very interesting argument, the guy who promises tax cuts but says there are no tax cuts. a guy who says we shouldn't be having mission creep in libya but wants mission creep in syria. he's been on all sides of the

issues. >> that's just in the last week. >> the president needs to just say these things, it's not obvious to people watching on tv. when you're in a debate it's helpful to talk about it at that time rather than in the rallies afterwards. the jobs question is very interesting. he's trying to convince people in ohio where the unemployment rate is lower than the national average, which already is coming down -- >> in a place where the president's plan to save the auto industry actually protected many jobs. >> so in the face of all the evidence around them, and you can argue about economic statistics as much as you like, but people know their own economy and their own lives. he's trying to put against that by saying there are joshs in the ground we will dig up presumagely by pulling away from environmental regulations. he's talking really about fracking. that's his plan for ohio. if ohio people think that's a great plan to get them jobs, them they know who to vote for. >> karen, romney was in iowa today voicing his opposition to another source of revenue, the estate tax. take a listen to this. >> my own view is we ought to

kill the death tax. you paid for that farm once. you shouldn't have to pay for it again. >> last year up to $5 million could be passed on without incurring estate tax but i guess in romney's case he's talking about $50 million to each one of his five sons. the least you can say is that romney puts hits family first. >> oh, absolutely. you know, and i'm sure if he actually explained that to the voters that he was talking to that really he's talking about that $50 million, they could all relate just perfectly, right? i mean, here is the problem, again, so you heard this idea from romney, but i didn't hear how that math is going to add up, and we're not going to hear how that math is going to add up because it doesn't add up. this is part of what i think the obama campaign needs to do is to remind voters that this is the rhetoric we're hearing from mitt romney because he will say anything, whatever audience he's in front of, he'll say what it is he thinks that that audience wants to hear. notice while he was in iowa, he didn't talk about wind energy tax credits which is an issue for him in a number of key

states. in ohio he probably won't talk about how he was on the wrong side of a labor issue last year that was a big deal to many ohioans. and he won't talk about how he said the auto industry should just go under. i think continuing to remind people, you know, the rest of the story is awfully important here. >> david, i'm beginning to run out of taxes that this man is going to cut. can you work out the math of this? does it make any sense? >> the math, i hate to tell you this, is not important. >> it's not important? >> the details are not important. if you look at his foreign policy speech yesterday, if you look at what he's talking about now in terms of economics, it's all, as you might say, top line. i'm strong, i will create jobs. i'm strong, he's weak, you know, the economy stinks, i'm do better. and that's all he's selling. so the impreths of a guy who can do better than barack obama. and he will dodge any factual bullet. he will duck any factual bar to make that top line point.

and that's i think where the president kind of fell short on the debate. >> to richard's point. >> he can't sort of say, okay, if you're going to stay at this high conceptual level and just say you're strong and it doesn't matter what your facts and policies are, he will have to find a way to bring this down. bill clinton could do this easi easily. wait a second, if you're not going to tell the public i will tell the public what's in your plan. here are the three things you have to know. the president is going to have to find a which to keep bringing him down to the specifics and not let this guy who looks kind of presidential, sounds like a yoep, just wing it from here on out and not really be held accountable for what he says or what he has said. >> but richard, to what he just said, the polls are suggesting that it's actually being quite efficacious for mitt romney to give a top line but no content, no details. >> well -- >> that duth suggests that the decker to rat isn't listening. >> debates can change the course of the race but generally you have to look at all three presidential debates and see

where things are. we're in a very volatile moment because things are moving quite clearly after that first debate. and it's very hard to know where things will settle other than the historical precedent when we saw it happen for instance in 2004. john kerry got a significant bump out of that first debate, george bush, ep though he was hardly an expert debater, did claw back in debates two and three, and the race ended up off where it was predebate but still with the president, at the time president bush, ahead. so let's wait and see where this settles down. the other factor people are completely ignoring is there is the economy. the economy is getting better, pal panelly across all measures. consumer confidence, unemployment. that's affecting the underlying numbers as well. that's going on at the same time. so there are so many things moving around in a close race that for anyone to call the race or to think they know where this race is headed at this point,

they are deluding themselves. >> karen, romney, of course, says -- never says how he will make his massive tax cut revenue neutral without hitting the middle class, but the obama campaign is presenting a closer look at what it would mean. take a look at this. >> it's one of the hardest decisions a family can make, realizing a nursing home is the only choice. for many middle class families, medicaid is the only way to afford the care. but as a governor, mitt romney raised nursing home fees eight times and as president his budget cuts medicaid by one-third. we have a president who won't let that happen. >> okay. karen, forget about big bird, do you want to play big -- how about that? >> again, i think it is about, okay, what are the costs of the things, meaning the very real personal costs of the things that romney and ryan are talking about? and i think that's part of what the president needs to be doing. i think it's what the campaign is doing here in this ad is to say, if you're going to make this cut, let's talk about the

reality of what that's going to mean for people. you want to, you know, go invade iran, okay. are we all ready to see more caskets coming into dover, delaware? are we really ready to send men and women in uniform to another front in the war? you're going to make all of these cuts and how is that going to add up? it's not going to add up. here are the places where those cuts are going to have to come from. i think bringing it back to real terms, because, again, i think romney won't have the answer essentially. david is right. he has 9 top line -- >> i don't agree with you. romney's answer is very clear, ask me on the 7th of november. >> his answer is always no, it's not. >> exactly. >> because i said to. >> karen, david, and richard, thank you both. thank you all. next, paul ryan can't stand the heat and it may only get worse. stay with us. >> would you share your food with someone? >> yes. >> but that would create a culture of dependency. >> if they don't have food, i'll give it to them.

>> you're taking away the motivation to earn that food for themselves. did you not read that copy i loaned you? two years ago, the people of bp made a commitment to the gulf. bp has paid over twenty-three billion dollars to help those affected and to cover cleanup costs. today, the beaches and gulf are open, and many areas are reporting their best tourism seasons in years. and bp's also committed to america. we support nearly 250,000 jobs and invest more here than anywhere else. we're working to fuel america for generations to come. our commitment has never been stronger.

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. as the vice presidential pick, paul ryan's every word and deed is now being scrutinized. case in point, a terse exchange between the candidate and a reporter in michigan. ryan tells the journalist that to get rid of violent crime in the inner cities, you have to increase opportunities. and then this happens. >> and you can do all that by cutting taxes, with a big tax cut. >> those are your words, not mine. >> thank you very much, sir. >> yeah. that was kind of strange. trying to stuff words in people's mouths?

>> i don't know if it's strange. >> it sounds like you're trying to answer the question for me. that's a little odd. >> here with us now, ari melber a correspondent for the nation and jonathan alter, an msnbc political analyst. ari, you said earlier and i heard you, that you didn't believe that mr. ryan was acting out of kilter there but was being fairly reasonable with a rather jumped up local reporter. but isn't it the case that every ailment in society according to paul ryan is solved by tax cuts? everything from leprosy to the deficit? >> i think that's his you view. >> so that was a fair interaction. >> one of the problems we have is sort of the jumpiness. andrew sullivan finds a poll, freaks out, and you kind of got to tell him to fall back, and i saw at least on buzz feed they originally ran with the big headline that ryan stormed out of this interview and then people said, well, he ended it early. you get caught up on those

kerfuffles. it's a clear illustration of his view. i don't think he was out of line in the way he answered the question. he pointed only to charities to solve these problems. there's reames of research that shows local charities do great work but they cannot conquer the kind of issue that is were on the table there. >> i don't know, to that point, the specific elements of the ryan budget as voted through the house for the fiscal period up to 2013 actually would eviscerate pell grants, kill support of -- whas it called safe start -- head start, and all these provithss for people in low income families where crime is often very high in areas where crime is often very high. that's the sort of thing that he believes. he doesn't believe that you should do anything to help these people, just cut taxes. >> and on top of that, $810 billion in medicaid cuts, bloc granting that to the states which would mean an awful lot of children and poor people in those communities would flood emergency rooms both in the cities and in the suburbs because they wouldn't be

provided with any medical care. so this is a really dekeynesian budget that paul ryan put forward. it's true his only program for the inner sti, which was the subject of this kfertconversati tax cuts. he gets that from jack kemp, one of his mentors. it's a particular philosophy of government, and he shouldn't bristle at the question because this is what he believes. this is the core of his view. >> to that point, ari, how do you think this individual, this paul ryan, is going to manage himself in the debate against mr. joe biden? >> that's the question and it goes to something you said earlier in the show, which is a lot of the answers that are tough and scary when you look at the real repercussions of the ryan budget, a lot of the answers are ideas that basically this campaign wants to push until after the election. i'm a little reminded of the villain in the new "batman" who says now is not the time for

fear. that comes later. and that's the problem, and i think you're going to see joe biden come out and explain exactly what it means to cut a third out of medicaid, which is for elderly middle class families and, by the way, a lot of what medicaid goes to is families who have a child with disabilities and who wouldn't be near the poverty line but for that child. you want to cut that program? we have to talk about what that means for american families. >> but i think the problem is that ryan is smart. he's articulate. he's very fluent with numbers, and there's a chance that if biden goes after him too hard, the audience will say why is the vice president picking on that nice young man? so a lot of this is not about the substance, it's about demeanor and the what i it comes across as we learned in that first debate and from previous debates. so joe biden has his work out for him. i think the folks who are saying he's going to wipe the floor with ryan are wrong. >> okay. well, i want you both to listen very quickly to how paul ryan

explains the math behind his budget cuts. take a listen to this. >> are we talking about $700 billion in spending cuts in the first term, $800 billion, $1 trillion, what kind of ballpark number? >> you know, we can have a long debate about this. i don't know exactly when it balances because i don't want to get wonky on you, but we haven't run the numbers on that specific plan. >> you haven't given me the math. >> well, i don't have the time -- it would take me too long to go through all the math. >> very quickly to both of you, is 90 minutes long enough for the wonky paul ryan to explain the math? 90 minutes. >> he will explain the math in such a confusing way that his supporters will think it's very convincing and, you know, you and i will go that didn't make any sense, but that might actually let him finesse the debate because he is so good when talking about these numbers. it's true he hasn't been specific, but what he'll do is convey that he's a small government conservative, and, you know, cutting spending in the abstract sounds very good to a lot of people.

>> 90 minutes. >> can i say i want to give you a con creed answer to your question, but i'm young, i have good hair, and i'm not able to give you the answer. you're going to have to trust me from now until eternity. >> ari, i trust you. >> that's my paul ryan. >> next, a young girl in texas sets the world record for back flips. come november 7th, she may have to kiss that record good by. stay with us. >> for all you moms and kids out there, you should have confidence that finally somebody is cracking down on big bird. elmo is -- has been seen in a white suburban. he's driving for the border. [ male announcer ] now's the perfect time to buy an adjustable version of the most highly recommended bed in america -- the tempur-pedic ergo system. treat yourself to the ultimate sleep experience and save up to $400 during the tempur ergo savings event. plus, visit tempurpedic.com for full details

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there are a lot of things that make america an exceptional nation, and cheerleading is one of them. it's just not something we have

in england, probably because of all the rain. so it's unlikely that anyone in the uk would ever dream of attempting what 16-year-old miranda ferguson of dallas has just pulled off. a superlative series of 35 consecutive hand springs along the length of a football field. yes, an incredible feat that's now earned her a place in the guinness book of records as the best back flipper on the planet. so warmest congratulations to you, miranda, but i have to warn you that with four weeks until the presidential election, there's every possibility that your record could soon be broken. yes, believe it or not, there's one 65-year-old man who may even be more flexible than you in the battle for the world's number one flip-flopper. >> one, two, three, four -- >> the palestinians have no interest whatsoever in establishing peace. i'll recommit america to the goal of a democratic, prosserous, palestinian state living side by side in peace and

security with the jewish state of israel. >> four, five, six. >> wrer going to cut taxes on everyone across the country by 20%, including the top 1%. i'm not going to reduce the share of tacks paid by high income people. >> seven, eight, nine. >> 47% of americans pay no income taxes. my job is not to worry about those people. >> i'm a president for 100% of the american people, and that's the real percent people care about, not 99% versus 1%, not 47% versus anyone else. >> i'm extremely excite nd and very relieved. he was really nervous but it feels really good to be done. >> congratulations again, miranda, on your accomplishment. but as you can see, you've got some pretty stiff competition. stay with us. the day's "top lines" are coming up. ♪ [ male announcer ] why do more emergency workers everywhere trust duracell...?? duralock power preserve.

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from a very romney revival to a debate night keg party, here are today's "top lines." what a pity. >> earlier today the medical team received a noble prize for reviving the mitt romney campaign. >> don't be so polite, don't be could nice. >> clear eyes, pull heart, can't lose. >> elmo has been seen in a white suburban. he's driving for the border. >> i don't want to ruffle any feathers. >> big bird? what is that all about. >> this move to cut sesame street might not do much. i believe the quote co-would be that's bull [ bleep ]. >> they are freaking out and desperate. >> fox news is upset that empty headed punts are trying to brainwash and indoctrinate america. you could sue them. >> liar, liar, liar, pants on fire, fire. >> what was being presented wasn't leadership. >> we just watched what leadership looks like. >> that's salesmanship.

>> i'm confident because i see you here. >> this is nice and then he uses his hand to tap, tap. okay, now i'm -- >> you have never seen a bull fight quite like this one. >> this did not end well. >> those are your words not mine. that was kind of strange. trying to stuff words in people's mouths. >> paying more for my private jet? why not just make me take the shin woo chinatown bus. >> we can't afford to be cynical. >> i call it the protecting industry titans and yachtsman party or pity party. >> might throw a keg party for the ryan/biden debate. >> the vice president is going to come at me like a cannonball. >> biden is like, there's going to be a pool there? >> all eyes will be on paul ryan, do you know why? because he's so handsome. >> do you see that? >> there go the girls. >> let's get right to our panel,

already laughing. we're joined by krystal ball my colleague and little anna gill vel let that, a hispanic and minority affairs strategist. krystal, you'd think spirits would be really high in the romney camp, things looking great on the polling front. he had a great debate but we have another politico story about inner turmoil and they say the family has risen up in rebellion against the professions. the romney family says it's silly and it's not a story but it does sound as though there's some substance to this because romney has been appearing in a much more soft and kind of by graphical manner on the stump. >> he is. and his debate performance, he moved his language to the center. i would say it's actually quite common for there to be conflict between the candidate's family and the spouse. >> you know that yourself. >> the spouse is always very

protective of the candidate, wants them to be portrayed in the best light and i think ann romney if what's being reported is true, has a point. mitt romney is a poor candidate, but he's run an even worse campaign, and the fact that it's taken him this long to even make an attempt to rhetorically shift to the center is quite remarkable that he's been afraid of the base for this long and hoping to run just on anti-obama hatred. it's not a winning strategy at all. >> right. little anna, the politico story says the family pushed for a new message putting an emphasis on a softer and more moderate image for the gop nominee, a let mitt be mitt approach they believed more accurately reflected the looser, generous, and more approachable man they knew. is that the man you feel you know from the campaign so far? >> you know, it's been interesting because since actually the rnc and the big and

memorable speech from ann romney, we started to see that window of humanization open up, so there was certainly an intent there and maybe, yes, rightfully so. finally they're listening in the 11th hour and it may be working for them which is quite interesting. when you look at the numbers, the new polls on women, and the enthusiasm of the country as a whole, unfortunately or fortunately, depending on how you look at it, we might have been in tune for months but a lot of people are just tuning in now and they're just now seeing mitt romney for the first time introduced. great debate and now this nice guy. for many it's their first impression. >> krystal, we saw a pew poll yesterday which showed the president tied with romney among women. now, is in because the president didn't at the debate delineate clearly enough the substantive differences between himself and mitt romney? you and i know these things. we know that mitt romney would defund planned parenthood tomorrow. the president's first legislative achieve am was to

ensure equal pay for women. >> right. i think that is correct. i would caution though against taking -- reading too much into the pew poll. erasing an 18-point advantage with women, i just find that hard to believe. so i would wait to see some more polling evidence come out, but i do think he has narrowed that gap and i do think it's because the president failed to bring up some of those issues you pointed out. i was watching some of the debate between tim kaine and george allen in virginia and tim kaine has gone on the offensive against george allen for his position on personhood. that's been very effective for tim kaine in virginia. i think that line of questioning and attack from the president would also be very effective because the fact is despite mitt romney's attempt to rhetorically move to the center, his positions are what they are. you can't just completely repudiate everything that you've been saying over the past year and a half. >> krystal, did he it in 90 minutes in the debate. he repudiated virtually everything he stood for.

what $5 trillion tax cut, i'm not promising to give everybody a 20% tax cut. >> as a female voter, what's fascinating to me, and i agree maybe president obama could have had an edge with female issues brought to the table, but the center of that conversation was around the economy, which demonstrates once again that is the number one issue for all. so that was the opportunity, and it takes us out of the stereotype as women or as gay voters or latino voters that we don't just care about one-sided issues, but the economy is at the core. so i kind of like that it shows that women are tuning in, paying attention, and we are concerned about issues that are much bigger than the stereotypical ones, but, yes, those would have helped too. >> to your point i think the president wasn't sure which mitt romney was going to show up at the debate. now he knows and knows how to prepare for him -- >> but that's no guarantee he's not going to change again for the next debate. >> that's fair. >>en owe the specific point of his performance, do you believe

that mitt romney is a good improviser? one of the things we have picked up is that when he's on script, he can deliver an okay speech. but he's not dizzy gillespie. he can't improvise that well. this could be a strategy that goes down a bad path for him ultimately. it's all very well for his wife and sons to say be yourself. that could be problematic for mitt romney. >> i think that's exactly right. probably the biggest failing of the president in the debate was not to knock mitt romney off balance. those times in the republican primary when he had the worst moments, the $10,000 bet, i was run are for office for pete's sake, he was improvising and was off balance. >> krystal ball, lilian a, thank you for coming on. we head to ohio university where president obama is about to take the stage. will i am is firing up the

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. paul ryan has repeatedly said that he and mitt romney have a plan to grow the economy and reduce unemployment. but, unfortunately, whenever they're asked for details, they say they haven't run the numbers yet. well, we have some good news for mr. ryan because the economist did manage to run the numbers with the help of some experts and 450er is their conclusion. by a large margin, they rate obama's overall economic plan more highly than mr. romney's credit him with a better grasp of economics and think him more likely to appoint a good economic team. jared besh steen is former chief economic adviser to the vice president and an msnbc contributor and professor jeffrey sax is the author of "the price of civilization." if i might begin with you, jared, mr. ryan has offered an array of excuses for why he won't give us the details. he doesn't want to go all wonky

on us. he doesn't think we'll have the patience to listen. isn't the singular truth they're refusing to give the numbers because if they -- they know if they did so, people would run for the hills? thild they would run for the hills. >> they would certainly run for their calculators because the numbers don't add up. if you actually look at the ten-year cost of mitt romney's tax cuts to folks earning above $200,000 so people in the upper levels, that loss is $2 trillion. the governor says i'll pay for that by closing all the loopholes. i had broaden the tax base. there's only $1.7 trillion in loopholes to be closed. 2.7 in cuts, 1.7 in loopholes. that leaves a trillion that gets

added to the deficit for falls to folks below 200k to fill the gap. when he cited those studies that make the numbers work out, the only way you get there is by doing precisely what i said, you have to go down to middle class householtz to get them to make up the difference. other than that, you blow up the deficit. every time we have seen those candidates come with lower tax rates, broader base, we invariably get a lot of the former, rate cuts, and very little of the brace broader. >> they like to say they are for taking responsibility, dealing with the deficit, getting our fiscal house in order but they do so by suggesting the privatization of social security, ending medicare, slashing virtually every form of assistance to people who are in need in the middle ever a recovery from the recession. isn't their plan basically punish the poor and reward the rich? >> well, they don't believe in a

role of government in the economy, and this is shown in everything that paul ryan has done in his budget proposals over the years, which do have a lot of numbers in them, and this has been at the core of the so-called philosophy of romney and ryan all through the campaign until the debate when everything became soft and mellow and centrist and disguised. but the basic point is very clear. they want to cut taxes and they want to smother government, and i think that a normal country needs government. it needs government for a decent education, for job skills, for infrastructure, for environment, for climate. a lot of other americans do also. they don't really see what's coming necessarily because now it's being aggressively disgu e disguised, but i think it's very dangerous. >> in your book "civilization" you talk about the fact that cultures and civil gations are not simply about figures, about

math. they're about things like compassion and human respect for other humans who may be in need. these two don't regard that, they don't even mention those kind of issues. >> if you look at what ryan over the years has proposed, he said let's balance the budget by cutting right at the knees the poorest people in our country, going after medicaid, going after the income support for the most vulnerable people in our country. now, those people don't necessarily vote. they have no voice in the political campaigns, they're not heard, but the callousness of this is really disgusting actually, and this is at the core of it. of course, that's the whole ayn rand philosophy which he also ascribed to all the time until very recently. now, no, no, that's theory. >> that's only because someone told him she was an atheist. jared, you wanted to interrupt. >> i wanted to say that i very much agree with jeff, and by the way, auhe's a very usual economt

to be talking about respect and compassion, i think that's great, but i wanted to amplify something, it's not just that paul ryan cuts the poor off at the knees and it's not just, martin, that he does this just in the context of the recession. when he talks about bloc granting medicaid and food stamps, he's talking about restructuring those programs so they can't respond to recessions in the future. he's taking out what we call the counter cyclical policy, the idea that the safety net actually expands in recession. now, that's bad enough and it underscores all the things that jeff was just saying. if you stop there, i'd say that's cruel, repulsive, i'd echo everything jeff just said but he doesn't stop there. he then takes the cost savings and he delivers them to the wealthy at the very top of the scale through the type of tax cuts i was describing earlier. so really it's massive robin hood in reverse. >> that's exactly right, and, you know, there's a chance

they're going to get away with it, with this scam, because now they have -- now that the primaries are over and the convention is over, now they're running to the center disguising all of this, making everything seem so mellow, but it's a very radical proposal. >> it is radical. >> radical and disgusting. >> that's the right word. >> but maybe they're smoothing everything over. >> it's radicalism that they're trying to disguise as moderation and it's very, very important to see through it. the stakes are high. >> but, professor, you called it a scam. do you think it's a scam. >> it is a scam. >> it's a con on the nation? >> of course it's a con on the nation. this is an extreme right view. it's been played that way until recently but at the debate everything changed all of a sudden. the language was all sweet and very moderate. it had its political effect so far. i hope that there's time for people to understand what this is really about, bub it is a zam, of course it is.

>> final question to you, jared, you know joe biden better than any of us. how do you anticipate that he'll address some of these factual issues in the debate come thursday? >> i was just thinking about that as i was listening to some of the earlier segments. great kudos to you for citing dizzy gillespie. that was a home run. >> hurry up, we have to go. sherrod brown is waiting for us. >> joe biden has an excellent bs met meter and i don't mean bowles/simpson. he's going to be hitting back very hard. >> jared bernstein, professor jeffrey sax. thank you both. much more ahead as we await the president speaking live at ohio state university. stay with us. ♪ i'm only in my 60's...

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there's a big crowd gathering in columbus, ohio, at this hour in anticipation of the president's arrival for a

campaign rally in what is quickly becoming the most critical of battleground states. this as a brand new cnn poll shows the president leading mitt romney by 51% to 47% in the buckeye state. nbc's kristin welker is traveling with the president and she joins us live from columbus. kristin, on the final day for voter registration in ohio, polls are tightening for both the challenger and the incumbent. >> reporter: they absolutely are, martin. the obama campaign has been saying for weeks, the romney campaign as well, that they expect this race to get tighter as we get closer to election day so we're essentially seeing that play out in real time. you just mentioned that cnn/orc poll that effectively proves that. a lot of people will say that is because of the debate. mitt romney continues to gain momentum in the wake of the debate. president obama was off to a strong start here in ohio. the unemployment rate lower than

the national average. the folks here really like the auto bailout, one out of every eight ohioans has a connection to the auto industry. so a lot of ohioans were expressing support for him, but now obviously things are getting tighter, martin. >> nbc's kristin welker fighting will.i.am very valiantly. thank you very much, kristin. we'll be right back. ♪ this is love, this is love, this is love ♪ [ female announcer ] most whitening strips promise full whitening results in two weeks or more. rembrandt® deeply white™ 2 hour whitening kit is proven to quickly remove surface stains and deep stains in just two hours. [ female announcer ] rembrandt® deeply white™: whiten in just 2 hours. starts with arthritis pain and a choice. take tylenol or take aleve, the #1 recommended pain reliever by orthopedic doctors. just two aleve can keep pain away all day.

back to the news.

just two aleve can keep pain away all day. i"i'm not in favor of a a$5 trillion tax cut. that's not my plan." mitchell: "the nonpartisan tax policy center concluded that mitt romney's tax plan would cost $4.8 trillion over 10 years."

vo: why won't romney level with us about his tax plan, which gives the wealthy huge new tax breaks? because according to experts, he'd have to raise taxes on the middle class - or increase the deficit to pay for it. if we can't trust him here... how could we ever trust him here? this reduced sodium soup says it may help lower cholesterol, how does it work? you just have to eat it as part of your heart healthy diet. step 1. eat the soup. all those veggies and beans, that's what may help lower your cholesterol and -- well that's easy [ male announcer ] progresso. you gotta taste this soup. it's time now to "clear the air" and it seems like the pressure is beginning to get to vice presidential candidate paul ryan. earlier in this broadcast we showed you mr. ryan becoming petulant in response to a local television reporter. yesterday he also gave a radio interview in which he tried to define his opponents in this way. >> it seems pretty clear that their new strategy is basically just call us liars, to descend

down into a mud pit and hopefully, with enough midslunging back and first and distortion, people will get demoralized and they can win by default. >> a new strategy is just basically to call us liars? oh, really? well, for the sake of clarity, here are two important fact facts we need to keep in mind before mr. ryan takes the stage for the vice presidential debate on thursday. first, mr. ryan would like to privatize social security. yes. congressman ryan sponsored a bill back in 2005 called the social security personal savings guarantee and prosperity act. this proposed the creation of private accounts funded entirely by borrowing. his plan was so irresponsible adding more than $2 trillion in new debt over the first decade alone that even the bush administration rejected it as utterly irresponsible. again, the facts are clear, whether mr. ryan likes it or not. second, mr. ryan's budget, which was proposed and supported by

house republicans for the fiscal here 2013, would devastate vital services to millions of americans. chairman ryan proudly presented his budget knowing that he wanted to cut the earned income tax credit, slash $134 million from the supplemental nutrition program, and zero out support services for the elderly, disabled, and at-risk young people that would affect something like 23 million americans. in fact, mr. ryan's economic plan was deemed to be so callous that when he spoke at georgetown university, 90 members of the faculty sent him a letter saying that his budget was a complete bastardization of catholic social teaching. as father thomas reese said, i am afraid that chairman ryan's budget reflects the values of his favorite philosopher ayn rand rather than the gospel of jesus christ. mr. ryan says his opponents are liars who want to